Sunday, 2 March 2008

Ghost requests Akhand Paath

The following story is from Katha by Giani Avtar Singh Ji - Badni Kalan Wale. Giani Avtar Singh Ji is the grandson of Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale. The katha is entitled "Sikhi di Rehit," it can be found on gurmatveechar.com



About 20 years ago, a family in India was blessed to have a Sri Akhand Paath Sahib of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj at their house. Giani Avtar Singh Ji attended the Sri Akhand Paath Sahib. The Paathi Singhs recited the Paath with complete Maryada.

The reason for the Akhand Paath was that a young man (youth) in the family had recently died. After his death, the soul of the young man was wandering and eventually the soul possessed his brother. After entering into his brother's body, the soul spoke and requested that the family should do a Sri Akhad Paath Sahib for him.

Giani Ji in his katha says that through this sakhi, we will understand the importance of Gurbani and also the importance, need and greatness of the Sikh identity given to us by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj.

After the soul requested that an Akhand Paath be done for him, the family members went to a few places to seek help in performing the Sri Akhand Paath Sahib. Eventually, the family came to Giani Avtar Singh Ji and asked him for help. They requested full tyaar par tyaar Singhs (always ready, spiritually elevated Khalsa Singhs) to do the seva of the Akhand Paath Sahib.

Giani Avtar Singh Ji discussed this with some Gurmukh Singhs and they agreed, then they began the Akhand Paath seva. Giani Avtar Singh Ji mentions that he was present at the Bhog (completion) of the Sri Akhand Paath Sahib. That day, the brother of the dead young man was present there too. It is assumed in the Katha, that the soul of the dead young man would enter and leave the body of his brother from time to time.

The family then prepared some food for Giani Avtar Singh Ji and the Singhs. The brother of the dead man was sitting there too. Other family members were present. Then suddenly, the brother began to feel dizzy and was unaware of his surroundings, he then closed his eyes. The family knew exactly what was going on. The family told Giani Avtar Singh Ji that the soul of the dead man is entering into his brother's body now.

Giani Ji says that after hearing this, he was carefully paying attention to see if they were just pretending or not. Then, while speaking to the brother who was possessed, Giani Ji asked, "What is your name?"

Then Giani Ji asked, "What was the purpose of you coming back if you had already died?"

Then the soul spoke and said "I wasn't supposed to die yet, I still had some years left in my life. What happened was, I became unconscious after being electrocuted. Then my family members put milk into my mouth (thinking it might help). I had no idea what was going on. Due to my family pouring milk into my body, I died, because after a person is electrocuted, water/liquid should not be given to that person."

Giani Ji continued speaking with the soul, and then an important question was asked, "After dying, where did you go?"

Giani then pauses the story for a moment, mentioning that only the souls who have died can tell us these things (about the after life). People like us who are still living don't have the knowledge on these matters.

Continuing on, Giani Ji mentions that the soul replied, "I was taken to a very bad place, hell."

"They took me there (Jamdoots - Angels of Death) and I was very miserable and grieving in pain, just by being there."

Giani Ji then asks, "How did you get released from there?"

Soul replied, "One day, the head person (Dharam Raja) came there to inspect and see what was going on." Giani Ji then explains, that whatever body the soul was in before death, those same qualities are then carried on to the after life. The soul mentioned, that he was kesdhari (kept uncut hair) before his death.

Soul continues saying, "When the head person saw that I was kesdhari, he ordered that I be taken out of hell. Then the head person asked me if I have ever done Paath (Sikh prayers). I replied that I only used to do Paath of Jap Ji Sahib before my death, but not other Gurbani prayers and I have never let scissors touch my hair. Then the head person told me that because of these 2 things: not cutting your hair and doing Jap Ji Sahib Paath, you will be released from hell. If you hadn't done these good deeds, you would've been in hell for ages, who knows how long!"

The soul continues on saying, "I then remembered the sakhi when Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj was explaining to a Sikh named Bhai Dhana Ji, that if a Sikh who has never cut his hair enters into hell, I will pull him out of hell by the hair on his head."


Giani Ji explains that the soul was freed from hell because he had never cut his hair and also he had done Paath of Sri Jap Ji Sahib. This is what caused the soul to enter his brother's body, in order to relay the message to his family, to request that an Akhand Paath Sahib be done for him.

Gurbani's power is limitless. It helps us here and in the after life. Even souls that have already died are thirsting for Gurbani and its power.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Saturday, 1 March 2008

tune for u when u training (gym)

Sikh Girl talks about her conversion

Friday, 29 February 2008

sad story

Gang get life for '£5 bet' murder
Hughes, Miller and Bonallie
The "sadistic" gang must serve between 15 and 22 years
A man and two youths who kicked a disabled man to death over a £5 bet have been jailed for life.

Brent Martin, 23, who had learning difficulties, died in hospital after he was found in a pool of blood on Sunderland's Town End Farm estate.

William Hughes, 22, and Marcus Miller, 16, had admitted the murder but Stephen Bonallie, 17, had denied the charge.

The judge at Newcastle Crown Court ruled they must serve minimum terms of between 15 and 22 years.

Posed for photographs

The three, all trained boxers from Sunderland, repeatedly punched, kicked, stamped on and head-butted their victim over a £5 bet to see who could knock him out first.

They chased him around the Town End Farm estate just three months after he was released from a psychiatric hospital where he had been staying due to his learning difficulties, the court heard.

Brent Martin
Mr Martin was punched, kicked, stamped on and head-butted

Finally he was stripped of his trousers and pants and left dying next to a parked car in Baxter Road, Town End Farm, as his attackers posed for photographs.

A post-mortem examination revealed Mr Martin died from a massive head injury and had suffered at least 18 separate blows to the head and neck.

Hughes, from Washington Road, must serve a minimum of 22 years, Bonallie, from Birtley Avenue, 18 years, and Miller, from Baxter Road, must serve at least 15.

Judge John Milford described the attack as "sadistic conduct on an extremely vulnerable victim".

Brutally, cowardly - they acted like a pack of animals
Det Supt Barbara Franklin

He said: "I would hope the minimum terms imposed upon young offenders are sufficiently long to spell out to young people the consequences of committing murder.

"If I am wrong, then perhaps the 12-year starting point for those under 18 needs to be looked at again by Parliament when the murder is, as in this case, particularly serious."

Judge Milford also said their victim has been a "gentle and caring person" who had a long history of mental health problems.

Ben Nolan QC, defending Miller, who has an IQ of 79, blamed the availability of cheap alcohol, and said litres of vodka were being sold for £6 in Sunderland.

"I calculate that to be 30p a double shot," he said.

'Effective action'

Outside the court, Mr Martin's family toasted the lengthy jail sentences with champagne and well-wishers wore white T-shirts displaying Mr Martin's name and picture.

His mother Brenda welcomed the sentence and praised the judge, adding: "The government needs to listen to murder victims' families."

Det Supt Barbara Franklin, who led the inquiry, also believed alcohol was a factor.

Brent Martin's family outside court
Mr Martin's family toasted the sentences outside court

She said: "It's up to retailers to make sure it's sold responsibly, it's up to parents to take responsibility for what their children get up to outside the home.

"We need people to tell us when disorder is happening in their communities so we can take effective action before it gets out of hand.

"In the five years I've been a senior investigating officer this is one of the most brutal murders I've dealt with.

"Brutally, cowardly - they acted like a pack of animals. There's no other way to describe the people involved."

Ian Macrae, editor of Disability Now magazine, published by the disability charity Scope, said: "We are pleased that William Hughes, Marcus Miller and Stephen Bonallie have received such long sentences.

"But we are disappointed that the judge did not mention the fact that Mr Martin was clearly targeted because he was disabled and that his horrific murder was aggravated by hatred towards his impairment.

"Murders motivated by homophobia and racism often attract far stiffer sentences. All such horrific crimes must be treated equally by the criminal justice system."

Equality

Story of Bhai Kanhaiya.




It was the year 1704, there was a battle at anandpur between the khalsa and combined Hindu hill rajas and Mughals. The Khalsa was defending the Anandpur fort as the enemies launched a heavy attack.

Bhai Kanhaiya was given the duty of giving water to the injured Singh’s during the battle. When by Kanhaiya got on the battle field, all he could see was the face of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in everyone and god dwelling in everyone, there fore neither seeing anyone as friend or foe, he severed indiscriminately. Bhai Kanhaiya was seen by other Singh’s giving water to the enemy, some of which saw Bhai Kanhiaya went and told Guru Ji, We have a traitor in the camp, he is helping the enemies heal so that they can get up and attack the khalsa again.

Guru Ji, Bring Bhai Kanhaiya to me

When the Singh’s got back, to where Bhai Kanhaiya ji was, he was giving water to a mughal. The Singh’s gripped him and took him to Guru Ji

Bhai Kanhaiya bowed to Guru Ji,

Guru Ji, your sikh brothers tell me you are helping heal the enemy so that the enemy may get up and attack your brothers, they call you a traitor.

The Singhs: Guru Ji he eats and lives with us, but gives water to the enemy, he shows he is a sikh but has friendship with the enemy.

Bhai Kanhaiya: I never gave any water to the enemy.

When hearing this some of the singhs got angry and went for their swords and asked guru jis permission to punish bhai sahib. But Guru ji told the singhs to look into bhai sahibs eyes . when they gazed closely into his eyes they saw guru jis reflection instead of their own. This proofed to the singhs that bhai sahib saw Guru jis face everywhere, he was in deep meditation.

Guru Ji gave Bhai Kanhaiya a hug and said, Khalsa ji, he is not a traitor, but has a pure heart and see’s God in all. He is innocent (he wasn’t wishing no harm on the khalsa), he is in Chardi Kala. We are all children of Waheguru, we are the creation of the same creator, and just as bhai Kanhaiya saw me in all, in the same way God, dwells in all. God dwells in the good, and evil. We don’t fight with hate; we only fight for truth, justice and humanity. Our fight isn’t due to racism it is to uphold righteousness in the world.

“Recongnise the Human Race as one”

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji - Dasam Granth.

Bhai Kanhaiya ji left us an example, that Sikhs should never have hate (not be a racist.)

I see the Supreme Lord God in all beings, and I am the dust of all. Ang 616 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

The Tradition of the Faithful Bibi Rajni


In the era of Guru Ram Das Ji, one cannot leave out Rajni, youngest daughter of Rai Duni Chand, revenue collector (kardar) of Patti. Rajni was a Sikh, a disciple of the Guru. One day she was sitting with her sisters admiring some new clothing they all had received from their father. The girls were ecstatic and exclaiming how good their father was to them.

Rajni observed that all gifts are ultimately from God. Their father was merely an instrument of His greatness.


Unfortunately for her, he overheard her comment and became very angry.
The infuriated father, believing her to be an ungrateful wretch, married her to a leper with a taunt that he would see how her God would help her lead a normal life. The leper was severely disfigured and a foul smell came from his body. The poor girl had accepted her fate ungrudgingly and worked hard to maintain herself and her crippled husband.

She kept repeating the name of God, and was certain that god was testing her with this turn of events. She was forced to beg for a living. Still she bathed and fed her leper husband, never losing faith.


Fifth Mehla (Gurbani of Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji):

To obtain the state of life of Nirvaanaa, meditate in remembrance on the One Lord.
There is no other place; how else can we be comforted?
I have seen the whole world - without the Lord's Name, there is no peace at all.
Body and wealth shall return to dust - hardly anyone realizes this.
Pleasure, beauty and delicious tastes are useless; what are you doing, O mortal?
One, whom the Lord Himself misleads, does not understand His awesome power.
Those who are imbued with the Love of the Lord attain Nirvaanaa, singing the Praises of the True One.
Nanak: those who are pleasing to Your Will, O Lord, seek Sanctuary at Your Door. - Ang 322 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


One day, she reached the site of a pool on her way to a neighbouring village. Placing the basket containing her husband by the side of the pool, she had gone off on an errand, most probably to look for food. In the meantime, her crippled husband had seen a black crow dip into the water of the pool and come out white.

Amazed at this miracle, the man crawled up to the edge of the pool and managed a dip. He found himself completely cured.

When his wife returned, she was amazed to find her husband in good health. He was handsome and whole. At first, she was alarmed and suspected that he might be a different person. He had, however, kept one finger with leprosy marks un-dipped. He showed her the diseased finger as proof of his identity.


The couple thanked God, and went to Guru Ji to seek his blessings.



The pool was the future site of the Sri Harminder Sahib.
The sakhi relates that if you keep faith in God then one day all rewards are paid. Bibi Rajni had always kept the Faith in Guru and God, being happy with whatever she had and thus was rewarded at the end.

Wednesday, 27 February 2008

The Caste System



I have not love for appearances or for high castes. It is discipline that I love.-Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji (Rehatnama Bhai Sahib Singh Jee)

In sikhi no one is higher or lower due to their social status or wealth. It is our actions that will bring honour or dishonour in Gods court. Gods light is in all, so how can we be any different if our soul is the same. Sikhi eliminated caste when Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji chopped of the heads from the 5 beloveds and put the heads on a different body and made them drink Amrit from the same bowl. (This proved we are all the same)

Recognize the human race as oneSri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Dasam Granth Ji


The caste System is a Hindu belief and it is causing disunity in the Sikh Community due to us not listening to our Guru.

  • People are building caste based Gurdwaras (Which is hypercritical)
  • There are problems when it comes to marriages.
  • It makes Sikhs feel isolated from other Sikhs.

Different sections (castes) of society develop hatred for one another and finish themselves through squabbles as the bamboos, due to their mutual friction, producing fire burn themselves as well as others. Bhai Gurdas ji varan

Recognize the Lord's Light within all, and do not consider social class or status; there are no classes or castes in the world hereafter. Ang 349 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

No matter what background, culture, race, gender, country and tribe you belong to, remember we are all equal because Gods light is within us all.

Tribute to Shaheeds

MOTHER OF KHALSA

MATA SAHIB KAUR JI

In Sikh history Mata Sahib Kaur is known as the Mother of the Khalsa. This honour was bestowed upon her by the Tenth Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh Ji. When a Sikh receives the gift of Khande Dee Pauhul (Amrit), he/she is told that from today onward your father is Guru Gobind Singh Ji and you mother is Mata Sahib Kaur Ji.

Mata Sahib Kaur Ji, whose name before taking Amrit was Mata Sahib Devan Ji, was born on the 1st November 1681 in a village called Rohtas, District Jehlum, in West Panjab, (now in Pakistan). Her mother’s name was Mata Jasdevi Ji and father’s name was Bhai Rama Ji. Her father, who was an ardent sewak (devotee) of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, influenced her to the extent that she wanted to devote her whole life in the service of the Guru Sahib. From her childhood, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji was a sweet and quiet natured girl. Because of the religious atmosphere at home, she was deeply influenced by Gurbaani during her formative years. It is possible that in her childhood she might have seen Guru Gobind Singh Ji at Sri Anandpur Sahib during the visit of her family.

"...She had inherited humility, love and sacrifice to humanity and devotion to Waheguru..."
Birth house of Mata Sahib Devan at Rohtas, Jhelum
When she came of age, her father and other devotees of village Rohtas, took her to Sri Anandpur Sahib and requested Guru Gobind Singh Ji to take her as his bride. Guru Ji told the Sangat that he was already married and could not marry again. However, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji's father had pledged his daughter to Guru Sahib and no-one else would marry her now. Therefore, Guru Sahib agreed that Mata Sahib Kaur Ji could stay with the Guru's family, however, they could not marry or ever have children.
Guru Sahib instead promised Mata Sahib Kaur Ji, that you will become a great Mother to thousands. Mata Sahib Kaur Ji lived in the Guru's household and served Guru Ji and the Sangat with full shardaa (devotion).
Mata Sahib Kaur Ji accompanied Guru Sahib throughout his life, even during battles, serving him in every possible way. On Vaisakhi 1699, in the first Amrit-Sanchaar, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji participated in the sewa of the Amrit-Sanchaar by adding Pataasey (sugar wafers) to the Amrit, and was bestowed the honour of eternal motherhood of Khalsa Panth.

Mata Ji guided the Khalsa Panth through period of crisis many times and issued eight decrees in the name of Khalsa.

When Guru Gobind Singh reached Abchal Nagar (Sri Hazoor Sahib), he sent Mata Sahib Kaur Ji to Delhi and gave her five weapons of the Sixth Nanak, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, for safekeeping. These weapons are today displayed at Gurdwara Rakabganj in Delhi. Mata Sahib Kaur Ji, passed away before Mata Sundri Ji. She left for heavenly abode at the age of sixty six in 1747 and her last rites were performed in Bala Sahib, Delhi.

Gurdwara Bala Sahib, Delhi

Tyar per Tyar Khalsa

Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave the Khalsa the Amrit of the double edged sword. The khalsa is the army of God, its purpose is to practice truth and defend humanity. The khalsa stands for the principles of justice, righteousness and truth. The khalsa will die in the battlefield but never compromise theses principles. Guru JI said that his Khalsa should always be ready 24/7. (In other words never get caught slipping) Guru Ji gave the following commands to the Sikhs:

They are the Khalsa who fights valiantly in the direction of victory.

Thankhaanama Bhai Nand Laal Je

They are the Khalsa who is forever ready for battle.

Thankhaanama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

They are Khalsa who never runs from the battlefield and enshrines the warrior lifestyle in his heart.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

They are Khalsa who never abandons his weapon (Kirpaan). Recognise them as the disciplined and pure Khalsa.

Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh

They are Khalsa who destroys the tyrant enemy.

Thankhaanama Bhai Nand Laal Jee


Outcry in South Africa!

Outcry in SA over 'racist' video
Screen grab from South Africa's ETV, allegedly showing black employees at a university being humiliated by white students
The alleged victims vomited after being made to eat fouled food

Several white students in South Africa face criminal charges after allegedly forcing black campus employees to eat food that had been urinated on.

A video has surfaced which appears to show the students instructing five elderly workers to drink beer and perform athletic tasks.

At one point, the University of Free State employees are apparently forced to eat food which has been urinated on.

The rector at the university has strongly condemned the video.

Students and staff joined a protest march at the campus in Bloemfontein, and student groups say they are now planning to call nationwide anti-racism demonstrations.

All these issues must be brought forward so that all the people of South Africa can see that racism is still a dominant feature in South African society
Siviwe Vamva
South African Students Congress

The video was reportedly recorded in protest at moves to integrate black and white students in the same residences at the University of the Free State.

The BBC's Mpho Lakaje says the university is known for having predominantly white students since the days of apartheid.

In recent years it has encountered difficulties trying to integrate people from other racial groups, and the latest incident is viewed by many as a clear indication of racial intolerance, he says.

'Upset'

The video shows five black people allegedly being instructed by a group of white students to down full bottles of beer, reports our correspondent, who has watched it.

A protest against an apparently racist video shot at a university in Bloemfontein, South Africa, on Wednesday
Students rallied near the campus, and other protests are planned

The university workers are then led to a playing field where they are told to display their athletic skills.

But it is the final extract of the film that has angered members of the public. It shows a white male urinating on food, and then - shouting: "Take! Take!" in Afrikaans - apparently forcing the campus employees to eat the dirty food, and causing them to vomit.

The alleged perpetrators are current or former students at the University of the Free State, say reports.

Its rector, Frederick Fourie, told the BBC that he was "extremely upset about the incident".

"We are having a management meeting. And there's a strong condemnation of this from everybody concerned," he said.

The university says it has begun procedures to suspend the students allegedly implicated in the video, and says the alleged victims have received psychological support.

Protests

On Wednesday, hundreds of black students and workers from the institution handed over a list of demands to management.

Map

Siviwe Vamva, from the South African Students Congress, said the group was planning to call a national strike on Thursday 6 March to raise the profile its anti-racism campaign.

He said racism was also still a problem in other universities.

"It's not only the University of Free State," Mr Vamva said.

"We are saying that all these issues must be brought forward so that all the people of South Africa can see that racism is still a dominant feature in South African society."

The South African Institute of Race Relations has said this incident and several others over the past month could threaten general improvements in race relations since the end of apartheid.

The institute also condemned the shooting of four black people by a white youth, and the decision by the Forum for Black Journalists to evict a white journalist from a meeting.

Tuesday, 26 February 2008

Father of the Khalsa!

Sri Guru Gobins Singh Ji had four sons; all four sons became Shaheed due to standing up for Sikh Principles. The elder two Baba Ajit Singh Ji and Baba Jujhar Singh Ji were killed in the battle of Chamkaur Sahib. The younger two were beheaded by the government because they refused to accept Islam. One day Mata Sahib Kaur Ji asked Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, whether he missed his sons?






Guru Ji Replied: You are wrong if you think I had only four sons, I have thousands of sons and daughters and in them I see the four I sacrificed. Those four sons were four virtues from Waheguru Ji, their body pots were to be smashed so that those virtues could be poured into the Khalsa.

Ajit means unconquerable, my Khalsa would rather die fighting than run like a coward.

Jujhar means warrior, my Khalsa is powerful and strong.


Zorawar means Power, as long as my Khalsa is distinct I will give them all of my power.


Fateh is victory, my Khalsa will fight for Waheguru's victory.


O Mata Jee, when I see one Khalsa with these 4 qualities I see all four sons.

The importance of Sri Sahib

History of RSS

Muslim terrorist convicted

A man said to be one of the most important recruiters for Islamist extremism in the UK has been convicted at the end of a major trial.

Mohammed Hamid, 50, of east London, was found guilty of training men in secret camps in the Lake District and New Forest to prepare them to fight abroad.

Among those to have passed through Hamid's camps were the four failed suicide bombers of 21 July 2005.

All four of the men responsible for the failed bombings were friends of Hamid.

The conviction marks a major success for counter-terrorism policing with Hamid regarded as a key figure in extremist networks.

Police say Hamid played a crucial role in grooming young men for terrorism and possible training overseas.

HAMID'S CO-ACCUSED
Atilla Ahmet, Kibley Da Costa, Kader Ahmed and Mohammed Al Figari
Clockwise from top-left:
Atilla Ahmet: Soliciting to murder
Kibley Da Costa: Attending terrorism training, providing training, holding terrorist articles.
Kader Ahmed, 20: Attending two training camps.
Mohammed Al-Figari, 44: Attending camps and holding terrorist articles.

Not pictured:

Hassan Mutegombwa
Mohammed Kyriacou
Yassin Mutegombwa


Hamid's training came in the form of camping trips around the UK and late night talks in the living room of his home.

Prosecutors said he sought to groom impressionable young men, a process that had only intensified after the July 2005 suicide bombings.

Hamid, 50, was found guilty of three counts of soliciting to murder and three counts of providing terrorism training. The jury at Woolwich Crown Court found him not guilty of providing weapons training at camps.

The jury cleared him of two further counts of soliciting to murder, relating to speeches, and a further charge of possessing terrorist articles.

Seven other men have been convicted in connection with his camps in a series of linked trials that have been under a partial reporting black-out.

Hamid and Ahmet will be sentenced at a later date.

Another man, Mousa Brown, was cleared of providing or receiving training.

During the trial, the jury heard that Hamid had close links to the leader of the 21/7 bombings, Muktar Ibrahim.

The lead bomber and four of his conspirators had joined one of Hamid's camps in the Lake District in the spring of 2004, the trial heard.

He and Hamid had also worked the same preaching stall in central London in 2004, leading to their arrest after a row with a police officer. Hamid told the arresting officer he was "Osama bin London" and armed with a bomb.

MOHAMMED HAMID
Mohammed Hamid
Born 1957, Tanzania, to Indian family
Grew up Batley, Yorkshire
Moved to London aged 12
Various manual jobs
Sent to borstal
Jailed for robbery
Two marriages, five children
Reformed crack addict
Found religion in 1990s


On the evening after the 7/7 suicide attacks Hamid had texted one of the men who would two weeks later try to blow himself up.

The trial heard that Hamid had been preaching for up to 12 years around London, including at Speakers' Corner in Hyde Park, his east London home and in his Islamic bookshop.

An undercover police officer codenamed Dawood later infiltrated Hamid's gatherings and recorded him and Ahmet encouraging young Muslims to fight.

Hamid had denied radicalising young men and claims he was running a "drop-in club" for al-Qaeda. He said that while hundreds of young men had come into contact with him over the years, he was trying to offer them support because Muslims were vulnerable in the wake of 9/11.

Acting Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke of the Metropolitan Police praised the jury for seeing through Hamid's jokey personality.

"If you want to judge how serious Hamid, Ahmet and the others were, you just have to look at the group," he said.

"The group included the people responsible for the attacks in London on 21 July 2005. You have to look at the fact that they celebrated the deaths that occurred on 7 July.

"And in fact what they were doing accelerated and intensified to try to mount attacks both here and overseas.

"You can only possibly conclude that these were serious determined terrorists."